Can the wisdom of Master Yoda withstand the scrutiny of General Kilkagno? Our latest episode ventures into the moral complexities of the Star Wars universe, casting a discerning eye on the Jedi Order's revered green sage. With General Kilkagno's sharp insights, we dissect Yoda's impact on the galaxy, questioning whether his guidance was a beacon of light or a shadow that contributed to the Republic's downfall. As we navigate through the Jedi archives' secretive nature and their ideological struggles with balance, we're left pondering if characters like Mace Windu and Count Dooku were sounding alarms that fell on deaf ears.
Journey with us as we grapple with the haunting decisions of Obi-Wan Kenobi and the ripple effects of Yoda's teachings on the fates of characters like Anakin Skywalker. The episode probes into the heart of fictional leadership and the ethics of society, where even the noblest intentions can lead to tragic outcomes. General Kilkagno helps us unravel the threads of destiny and morality, as we reflect on the choices that steered the galaxy toward darkness and consider how adherence to truth could have steered a different course.
The Force's balance is a contentious subject – is it achievable within the doctrines of the Jedi and Sith, or does it require a new perspective? Our dialogue explores this enigma, with Ahsoka Tano's unique journey serving as a beacon of what might have been. We conclude our exploration on a lighter note, connecting the dots between Star Wars tattoos and the narrative's themes of unity and duality. With a blend of serious reflection and cultural musings, this episode is a must-listen for both die-hard fans and those seeking a fresh interpretation of the Force's intricate dance between light and dark.
Can the wisdom of Master Yoda withstand the scrutiny of General Kilkagno? Our latest episode ventures into the moral complexities of the Star Wars universe, casting a discerning eye on the Jedi Order's revered green sage. With General Kilkagno's sharp insights, we dissect Yoda's impact on the galaxy, questioning whether his guidance was a beacon of light or a shadow that contributed to the Republic's downfall. As we navigate through the Jedi archives' secretive nature and their ideological struggles with balance, we're left pondering if characters like Mace Windu and Count Dooku were sounding alarms that fell on deaf ears.
Journey with us as we grapple with the haunting decisions of Obi-Wan Kenobi and the ripple effects of Yoda's teachings on the fates of characters like Anakin Skywalker. The episode probes into the heart of fictional leadership and the ethics of society, where even the noblest intentions can lead to tragic outcomes. General Kilkagno helps us unravel the threads of destiny and morality, as we reflect on the choices that steered the galaxy toward darkness and consider how adherence to truth could have steered a different course.
The Force's balance is a contentious subject – is it achievable within the doctrines of the Jedi and Sith, or does it require a new perspective? Our dialogue explores this enigma, with Ahsoka Tano's unique journey serving as a beacon of what might have been. We conclude our exploration on a lighter note, connecting the dots between Star Wars tattoos and the narrative's themes of unity and duality. With a blend of serious reflection and cultural musings, this episode is a must-listen for both die-hard fans and those seeking a fresh interpretation of the Force's intricate dance between light and dark.
5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Take a breath, let's dive in. Hello, hello. Hello, general Kilkagno, thank you for being on the show tonight.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Happy to be here.
Speaker 1:So I know you're a man and you're a myth and you're a legend and everything in between, but I've always been a Star Wars fan and I know that you're a Star Wars fan Absolutely. So my question for you is do you think that Yoda hashtag the green one, hashtag the man with the fast green stick and he a villain? Or was he the good guy? What do you think?
Speaker 2:Well, it's a great question and there's a lot of places to start from and analyze for any way you want to take this, but I think ultimately you have to go back to the beginning. Okay, so if you're looking specifically in the prequels the rise of Palpatine and the Empire before the fall of the Republic you see a society that is doing okay for itself but has a lot of problems with susceptibility to corruption. You see a society where you have the Jedi, who are supposed to be almost a diplomatic arm of the Republic but yet still kind of their own religious society, that are trying to stay out of conflict, trying to resolve conflict. They really don't have their own set place in the society. So with this, you kind of end up not knowing what the Jedi are supposed to do. Are they supposed to be enforcing their own law? Are they supposed to be enforcing the Republic's law? What are they really out here to do?
Speaker 1:So here's my train of thinking when it comes to Yoda and the Jedi Order, and it's that I love when fiction mirrors reality, in that individuals fear what they don't understand.
Speaker 1:And I think the Jedi, if they didn't align themselves with the Empire, they would have been an entity that existed, that had power, that was greater than most, and at this point as well, the Sith were basically extinct, right, absolutely. So there's nothing to really truly bring balance to the Force to say, okay, well, this group exists, that if this needs to be checked, this group needs to be checked, then we're okay. Or we can align ourselves with the Jedi or we can align ourselves with the Sith. That option was not on the table, exactly so because it was not on the table, he had to truly align himself with the Empire, because at least then he'll be working with the system. Then, to be susceptible to the entire galaxy at any moment, it's like all right, well, you guys are a threat, let's attack you guys, and then it just be like warring nonstop versus having order. So, basically, the same thing that the Sith did, the Jedi also did as well.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's the irony of it is that they talk about order even though the Jedi never use the term order. They use the term balance, which is the same exact thing Exactly. So was Yoda the bad guy, or was he just the person that was trying to delay the inevitable?
Speaker 2:I mean, you can look at it too, as he was definitely trying to delay the inevitable. I don't think he intended to end up as the cause of the fall of the Republic, but a lot of his either inaction or outdated views within the Jedi order caused an acceleration towards the whole collapse of the Republic into the rise of the Empire.
Speaker 1:Okay. So if you take that stance, then right, displaying devil's advocate for a moment, then would you say that the two extreme viewpoints now right, that either Mace Windu was right or Count Dooku was right. Yeah, I mean, and again you know, because both saw something that everyone else in the Jedi order just didn't see.
Speaker 2:Correct, I think they're. In a way, they're kind of both right. You know, there was even kind of its own corruption within the Jedi order of having a high council that's making the decision for all of these Force users that are kidnapped at birth, raised under this ideology, and you have no choice in the matter. This is where you go, this is what you do and we're going to do what you tell, what we tell you to do, and because of that, you're just kind of trapped into this one viewpoint of what balance is, where there's only light. And if you're talking truly about balance, only light isn't balance. Balance is a combination of light and dark, and that's why the Great Jedi existed Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's something that the Jedi Council, when it came to them as an organization and how they even utilize information, it was very they were very secretive. Yes, you know, like when they talk about the archives, oh, you needed special clearance to see the archives. So it's not as if knowledge was, you know, readily and freely available for the Jedi themselves, so they could even truly pursue balance. It was like no, it's, balance is what we tell you. Balance is.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and that's why you know the metaphorical blindness to the future was also an ideological blindness to the future, because you're only viewing one side of the force. You're only observing, practicing, meditating on these ideas of just the light. You're never going to see anything else coming your way, you're never going to notice any type of Sith Lord working in the background, in the shadows. All you can see is light. Yeah, you are literally blinded by the force to peer into anything you can't. Just as you could be blinded in darkness, you could be blinded in light.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So in my last semester of college, when I had to write my senior paper, there was a line in there that I was just trying to be poetic, but in that moment I knew I was a true Star Wars fan, because I wrote that in order to see the other side, you have to at least go to the middle part of the bridge. You can't shoot.
Speaker 2:It's true.
Speaker 1:You know, but that was really just my own interpretation of the Jedi and Star Wars lore and that at least with the Sith, a lot of them could say that, hey, I've been to the other side so I know what it's like. But not many people were. You know, it's not the other way around. Yeah, it's like a lot of the Jedi is like, once they go to the other side, they're like oh, that's it, yep, you're done, I'm done, you're done, you know, unless you're you know Raven, of course, but that's a different story.
Speaker 2:So if you're talking specifically about Yoda and what may or may not make him a villain, I don't think that he was absolutely a bad guy. It was a lack of experience of dealing with a powerful Sith Lord for thousands of years that has been manipulating a war on a galactic scale to cause more confusion, to cause more uncertainty, using the Jedi not as a diplomatic core or a peacekeeping core, but are now being conscripted as generals and Padawans, as commanders for entire clone legions throughout the entire galaxy. You're plunging them into even more chaos. Yes, so without somebody having a clear head or clear guidance on where we should be going or how we should be dealing with this situation, your kind of inaction or decisions will be judged harshly. But ultimately, as the head of the Jedi Council, as the one making decisions, not even necessarily with the agreement of the entire Council you become responsible through inaction.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. You know, I've always the one of the things that I've always looked at the Jedi Council and I'm a huge Obi-Wan fan. It's probably one of my, maybe my favorite character personally, just because I can see myself as him. Like, if I had to choose a character like I'm Obi-Wan, because I just get that archetype right, yes. But at the same time, as much as I respect Obi-Wan, he's still not free from being criticized for being weak.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, because it's that old adage of oh, if you see your friends jump off a bridge, you're going to jump off a bridge too. You know, yeah, like everyone that was there and was oh well, we're just going to do this or no one's going to do anything, we're just going to do our own thing. That just made things worse. Oh, we're going to investigate, but we're just going to make things worse, whereas at least with Dooku, he was just like you know what. I think this is the right thing to do and I'm openly acknowledging that when I was a part of the Jedi Order, we were corrupt, and I can see that we were corrupt and that we're really just a military force that's being used and the reason why. In the end, he could foreshadow things that I think even Yoda couldn't foreshadow, because, just as Palpatine utilized Order 66, well, there was an Order 65. And Yoda didn't use it. He didn't pull the trigger for Order 65. So Mace Windu knew what Order 65 was. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But to touch on Obi-Wan briefly too, there's also the saying of you had one job.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And when it came down to it, he fought his brother. He was victorious, and then he didn't finish the job.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So he's also responsible, considering that Yoda and Obi-Wan are survivors of the Purge, two of the most powerful masters that are still alive. They come up with a plan. Yoda fights to a stalemate and loses, but Obi-Wan has his duty. He does it, and then he doesn't finish the job.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:He chooses arguably even the worst fate of allowing someone to just sit there and burn in lava, as opposed to giving them a merciful warrior's death and ending their suffering. He just chooses to watch his brother burn as an angry, charred half-corpse.
Speaker 1:So here's something that I always found interesting about Star Wars. I know we're not talking about why Yoda's good or bad Is that when Obi-Wan leaves him to burn and die eventually. If he did, that was his fate. He would have became nothing, he would have became ash, he would have been evaporated, essentially. So when Obi-Wan fights Darth Vader on the spaceship and Obi-Wan disintegrates or poof, he's like hey, this is what you left me to do, my fate. And now I just gave it to you.
Speaker 1:And I think a lot of people miss that symbolism in why he chose to end him in that way. Well, listen, he was going to let me burn to death and look, he just burned to death at an accelerated rate. He showed him a warrior's death. He showed him mercy in a way that, as Darth Vader, he showed him mercy. He didn't torture him, he showed him mercy. He gave him his just deserts, whereas he's like well, if he burns, he dies and he happens to survive. Well, I didn't kill him. He's my brother. Yeah, it'll be one. It's a jerk, yes, and he's like. I guess that it's something that it paved me to say when I was rewatching the prequels recently and I was like man, it'll be one. I'm disappointed in your action, sir.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I mean it all does tie back to Yoda because, ultimately, as the head of the Jedi Council, as the lead teacher of the entire order, if you are teaching your students this path of Zed and this path of letting go of emotion, letting go of feeling and making clear decisions with an unburdened mind, it still there's all of these examples throughout the war of just falling apart, not following your teachings and allowing yourself to become this emotionally charged person and people didn't know how to understand or deal with these feelings and it caused a lot of issues throughout the entire war. I mean, you know again, part of Yoda's failings and what you could argue again continues to make him more of a villain. It's his handling of Anakin you know you're talking about. Okay, we take children at infancy and we brainwash or program them from infancy to believe this certain thing, and now you're taking a child that's preteens, that has had life experiences, that knows their mother, loves their mother, has these attachments to friends, family. It may not be the best life, but they still have these attachments.
Speaker 1:And you also accepted a kid with trauma, with pure emotional trauma as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, growing up as a slave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they grew up as a slave and now you give this person that has trauma, that didn't go to the Jedi, shrink Exactly, and now has a bunch of power. I mean, as they say, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Yes.
Speaker 2:And again, also through the series, we see these instances and opportunities where Yoda has used his own sense of freedom and teaching with radical free thinkers like Dooku. Yes, you know Dooku being his padawan, dooku being not just your average. Oh okay, I just accept things for what they are. He was essentially a king. He was a king. He was a count of. He was a count. He was a, you know, a landholder, a politician. His family came from a line of politicians. He was a smart individual and why Yoda took him on as a padawan? Because he knew he was going to be too difficult for anybody else to deal with. You talk about the line of radicals. You have Dooku, who trains Qui-Gon, who defies the council at every opportunity and refuses to become a master because he can't just follow the rules. Who trains Obi-Wan, who takes that same ideology of I'm just going to do whatever I want. I don't really care, we're just, I'm just going to do my own thing because I can.
Speaker 2:And it gets worse further down the line, exactly Because, like, the basis of those teachings gets lost. You know, you have Dooku, who was an actual thinker, an actual, you know, free thinker, to slowly devolving down the chain. And that's why one of the most interesting things they talk about with Duel of the Fates Duel of the Fates isn't about Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon's fate. The Duel of the Fates is about Anakin's fate. Yes, it's about if Qui-Gon survives. Anakin turns out okay Because Qui-Gon has that actual understanding of those free thinking tendencies. He knew what the future could be.
Speaker 1:Yes, Whereas Obi-Wan was constantly questing what the future was, what it could be. He didn't know, yes, and he was one step away from Yoda, whereas Qui-Gon was right next to Yoda. Yes, because they also had that understanding In a way. What a lot of people didn't like, don't realize the Star Wars fans is that, essentially, qui-gon is Yoda's grandson. If you were to talk about lineage in terms of that's his grandson, yes, and why Qui-Gon could have the ability to be a free thinker and do the things that he wanted to.
Speaker 1:Because there's a repetitive pattern that you begin to notice is that Yoda didn't go into he's not Grogu, you know. He didn't go into the Jedi Order as some child. He went in there as an adult that happens to have an extremely long lifespan. Then he's like, okay, all of my students are going to be just like me. So then Dooku is an adult, that's lived life, knows who he is, knows his parents, knows his family, his lineage and whatnot. And then those people are like, all right, we're just going to continue the trend, we'll skip two generations, but then we'll go back to how he did things and then you have the free thinking. So that's kind of like having power. But then it's like, okay, well, what do we do with this power? In comes Anakin.
Speaker 2:Yes, and the biggest thing is, anakin has all of this power. He has all of this emotional attachment. That isn't something that anybody aside from. Maybe Yoda would have the ability to wrestle with and help control those emotions, in the sense of the Jedi's teaching, but instead he gets paired with Obi-Wan, who is fresh out of being a padawan, has no idea what the heck he's doing.
Speaker 1:And their age difference is not that vast.
Speaker 2:No, it really isn't. And on top of that, it's like being a godparent and you're like, oh okay, well, this day won't ever come, it'll be okay, everything's going to be fine. And then, three days after you become a godparent, now all of a sudden you're stuck with this kid. You're like I didn't want this, I'm not ready for this, what am I supposed to do? I just got out of becoming a padawan. How the heck am I supposed to teach somebody now? I just finished that stage. I don't have any kind of teaching experience, so you're creating a recipe for disaster when in that moment, there should have been someone experienced to step in and be like hey, I understand. Okay, sure, this was Qui-Gon's wish that he be trained. Maybe we don't pair him with Obi-Wan. Maybe Obi-Wan can be there as the older brother for some guidance and to help him with things, but he probably shouldn't teach him. We should probably give somebody like Yoda, somebody like Mace Windu, who have that strength, this is the job.
Speaker 2:This is the job. You're a kid. We're going to train you, but you're going to need to go underneath some special hardcore training to help get you under control.
Speaker 1:Because all they did was just emotional attachment. All he ever learned in the Jedi Order was emotional attachment.
Speaker 1:Of course outside of the Order. He had attachments, right, he knows what it, knew what it was, but it wasn't like for Dooku, who, dooku and Yoda. It's like there's still that level of professionalism, essentially For Qui-Gon and Dooku. There's also still that, yes, there's emotions there, but we're still going to follow the rules and we're going to go our separate ways because we don't believe in the same thing.
Speaker 1:It wasn't hey, qui-gon, I'm leaving, you should come with me. It was hey, I already know that you think this way and you believe in harmony and the good and whatnot. But hey, I see the Jedi this way. So I'm going to leave, yeah, but for I think, in any situation, if Obi-Wan was the one to die, I do think that you were right that, from a teacher to student perspective, that Anakin would be okay, but I don't think that he would be okay in the sense that he wouldn't have violent tendencies or he wouldn't have been rough around the edges. I still think that the loss of Obi-Wan would have affected him deeply as well, to where he would have been troubled and he would have teeter on the line, but ultimately he would have been good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, but it would be having someone who would be accepting of those emotional attachments Exactly, instead of just like then's the rules, we're going to follow them because this is what I was taught, and now I'm a Jedi Knight and I'm going to teach you because this is what I was taught. It's hey, you have some things that you need to deal with and unpack and you're going to carry this stuff with you for the rest of your life. So we're going to work with that and we're going to help you control that and use that as a focus and help you not just follow the rules exactly as they're laid out.
Speaker 1:You know people I always thought was like fascinating. And I don't know if it's because I was. I think I was in middle school when episode five came out, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:It would have been episode two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it would have probably been episode two Sorry episode two, sorry Episode two and three. I remember watching you know, star Wars and saying man, why is it that when Anakin, you know, goes back, you know, to his home world and he slaughters everyone, he's still a Jedi?
Speaker 2:It's again going back to, going back to his Yoda the villain. It's like oh man, you went and did that. We're just going to kind of sweep that under the rug and pretend that none of this ever happened. Yeah, oh, you just went and flew away and did your own thing because you thought so.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, well just going to pretend that didn't happen. But the craziest thing is and I believe this you know what they say guilt by association, Right. So you have this person that's a part of this group leaves the group and commits mass murder, right, and then they cover it up, only doing what Palpatine already wanted to happen. He's like he's always lurking in the shadows waiting for someone to mess up. They could use that to his advantage. Exactly, I think that's what I can say. I hate Palpatine but I love him at the same time, because he's not going out of his way, making people do bad things. Essentially, he's like huh well, you did the bad thing, Now I'll bring you in. Now I can blackmail you, Now I know that you're ready for me to teach you a lesson in the dark side. But he's not like preemptively, like revealing himself to people, Correct, and I think that's why he's a special kind of villain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's definitely also antagonizing the whole destruction from within. Yes, with it's like okay, these things keep happening and I guess we're just going to have to keep doing these things. And now he wants more things. I guess we're just going to have to go along with it and just slowly, bit by bit, everything starts to fall apart within you. Have, you know, political infighting within, within the Jedi themselves that are causing again a kid that's already got a ton of emotional baggage, like, hey, you know this guy that's taking a real special interest in you and you think of as as a confidant, we want you to go spy on him and report back to us and and tell us what's going on in there. And it's like that's like deception and lying and the opposite of everything that you've taught me, that you've been trying to teach me, and I'm trying to be a good person.
Speaker 1:I'm trying. You think I already have a girlfriend on the side. What more?
Speaker 2:How many more, how many more pieces of my life am I supposed to be conflicted with? Yeah, you know, and again you know, you're talking about Yoda giving this order of like hey, we're going to go spy on on the president, the president of the United States. I know he's your best friend, but we're going to need you to report back to us and tell you what he's doing in there. And it's like this isn't what I was supposed to be doing Exactly. And then you have your, your teacher and your, your brother that's supposed to be helping you and offering you guidance, and he's like, yeah, you should do this too. And it's like the one person that you think would be hey, don't, don't do this, this is just going to mess you up. It's also like, hey, you should do this thing. We need you to do this thing. We need you to spy on him.
Speaker 1:We need information, you know. But here's the thing that I always found fascinating when Anakin and Padme were together, obi-wan knew, yeah, and Obi-Wan knew because Obi-Wan is Anakin as well, because he also has some secret person that just happens to be a Mandalorian. Yes, you know, I always thought it was fascinating. He's like well, I'm doing it, you know, and everything's okay with me. So clearly, if he's doing it, you know, everything's okay with them. Yeah, but it's this thing of this mismatchment of we're all breaking the rules and we're all telling ourselves that we're not breaking the rules, or exactly we're not breaking it that much, but not realizing that now it's rampant. Oh yeah, because it's people at the top that are all breaking the rules. So what happens down below?
Speaker 1:Everything falls the chain of command has disintegrated? Yes, and it's. That's the mirror of society today, where you know a lot of people. They're like why does work suck? Like, why is every day a bad day? Did you look up top? Are the people at top doing everything that they're supposed to do? Are they being immoral and ethical people, or are they just letting crap roll down below and creating chaos for the person at the bottom, Exactly Making every day suck? Yep. So I will always love how fiction mirrors reality, because the truth is truly three to the fiction, Absolutely 100%. Was he the bad guy?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I mean ultimately was. Did he have good intentions? Was he trying to keep the entirety of the Republic together? Of course, but just through inaction, poor management and a breaking of your own code to try to justify saving the Republic, you've compromised everything.
Speaker 1:You know what I always thought was super funny? You want to do all those things, but you want to do those things with a broken Jedi order.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:It's like it wasn't a well well, well, well machine anymore. No, you have, it's kind of. There's a theory. When I was in school, there was a there's a I forgot what the paradigm is called, but in this paradigm it's it was stating that after X amount of generations, you're, the views of the first generation no longer exist, right? So the first generation is always labeled as the hero, like generation, or the saviors, and so.
Speaker 1:So, after you've been the savior, what are you now? Now you're the occupier. So I see they did that. Oh, we liberated you guys, yes. And now, oh, you guys didn't leave, exactly. And now you guys didn't leave and you have a clones to now reinforce your authority, yes. What? So then Palpatine is over here. You know being all excited because, wow, these genres are idiots, yep. So now they're occupiers, and they don't realize that they're occupiers. They're conquerors, don't realize that they're conquerors. And guess what? They have their own private army. Because, at the end of the day, what did Palpatine do? He goes. The clones are doing whatever they wanted because of their strong attachment to the Jedi, the Jedi masters.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you know it was. It was a Jedi master who ordered the creation ordered the creation of the army. It wasn't me. Yeah, the Jedi built this army. I had no. I had no say I'll take the free army, but it wasn't me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like I didn't go to Kamino. Yeah, I don't even like those people. I've never seen one in person and it's true he hasn't been around them like you, you know. He distanced himself from them quite well. Yeah, you know, the thing that didn't make sense to me in Star Wars was that that the Chancellor exists and he's basically the president of the Galactic Empire or Republic. Yes, depending on what time period we're looking at, right? Yeah, they exist. He's a ruler. The Jedi exist.
Speaker 1:There are checks and balances that also exist in the Lord, right? Yes, if the Jedi had decided to be in the light, as they're supposed to be, right, because of balance and how they operate and we're straightforward, palpatine are being watched, not saying that. You know that that being so overt about something is going to lead to a positive outcome. Yes, but at least they would have been in line with what their philosophy was. And that would have also made things difficult for Palpatine, because now he can't manipulate the situation as much as.
Speaker 1:Oh, you guys think that I'm going to give Anakin, this idiot kid with emotional issues, information to make me look bad? Yeah, I was like no, that took that off. That would have, honestly, would have taken that off the table, and I love the philosophy of that. When you speak the truth and you're being a good person, it doesn't mean that bad things can't happen to you, but it does mean that when bad things do happen, no one's gonna look at you as a bad guy. Exactly, and the Jedi would have been like sure, we told you what our intentions were, but guess what? You did all those bad things not us Whereas Kyle Petitin was like well, you guys fight on me, you guys have a private army that I don't know what you guys do, cause I don't even issue half of these command. You know, I just have the, I'm just the president, but I wasn't the person that made the decision to bring my army to. You know, destroy Kamino.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:So, if anything could be said about Yoda, what made you love Yoda as a character?
Speaker 2:Initially in the original trilogy. He is just the crazy old hermit who's I mean? You look at him, you're talking, you know, back in the eighties. He's just a weird muppet with a weird voice and he's this old Wisen guy who's supposed to be this great teacher of things. And your first introduction you're like no, it's just some crazy green thing. And you know, slowly, over time, you begin to realize that oh yeah, now this is Yoda, this is the guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then you know you go through all this training and you know Luke is being trained doing all this stuff and you know Yoda's most famous quote of do or do not. There is no try. Yeah, it's just such a you can say that it's fortune cookie wisdom. But at that point in the story it's such a great moment because it is fortune cookie wisdom, but it's also profound. Yeah, because either do what you say you're gonna do or don't do it. Yeah, because if you say you're gonna try to do it, you're already setting yourself up for failure.
Speaker 1:I was interpreted that quite differently, but in the same vein, in that it revealed the hypocrisy of the Jedi, because if the Jedi say that they're for the light and the Sith are the dark side of the Force, why were they doing such dark things? You didn't choose to do the right thing. You didn't try in that moment. They should have tried to do the right thing as opposed to choose to do the wrong thing. And I always wondered, like why Yoda never tried to course correct. And his version of course correcting, if you're going based on the Clone Wars, which I'm happy that I finished that series was oh, let me just go on Qui-Gon's journey. That was by then it was already 1159. Yes, you know. So that's something that always found fascinating that in the end, qui-gon became the master and Yoda became the student. Yeah, only to become the student, I mean the master of Luke Skywalker in the end. Yes, so who truly brought balance to the Force? Nobody did.
Speaker 1:No exactly, exactly no one brought balance to the Force, because, within the philosophy that order brings chaos, chaos also brings order, and so all they did in the process was just create chaos.
Speaker 2:Well, if you truly want to play Devil's Advocate the person who really brought balance to the Force Palpatine and Darth Vader.
Speaker 1:Of course, of course.
Speaker 2:You know, in the absolute terms of bringing balance to the Force, there's so many Jedi and you have two Sith, you. It's a very unequal balance of power and just as the Sith are super strong because there's only two of them versus thousands of Jedi, as those numbers decline, for the Jedi order, that balance of power is slowly shifted back towards even.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You know, there's still always a point where the Sith are going to be more powerful simply because more Jedi exist, whether they were in a temple together, studying together, or scattered throughout the galaxy after the collapse of the Republic, and they're all doing their own thing and hiding from, you know, inquisitors and Vader and the Emperor, but those dark side users are always going to be more powerful just because things aren't in balance.
Speaker 1:You know what I realize about the dark side users, that is, their downfall Is that you instantly realize that when the numbers start to shift in their favor, they become just like the Jedi, exactly.
Speaker 2:And that's I mean. If you look at it, that's the true definition of balance in the force. Yeah, Because as one side loses power, the other side gains power. Yes, yes. So as your Jedi are falling in power and they're falling and falling and falling, you have all of these Jedi and you have these two super powerful Sith. Well, as the Jedi numbers fall, the Sith are slowly going to get weaker. Now it's not going to be noticeable because it's still just two of them versus hundreds, but that balance does shift until you get to a point.
Speaker 1:The reason why I say that they become like the Jedi is that, ok, the Inquisitors become a thing, right, well, if it's just two, why do we need you have Palpatine, darth Vader and the Inquisitors? You know, and you're like, ok, you literally just create another order, essentially yes, so now all the Jedi that are fleeing, ok, like, say so, could chooses to not say that she's a Jedi. Well, she still is a Jedi. Yes, well, when she uses the Force, now she's significantly stronger.
Speaker 2:But it also comes down to what you're practitioners, of course, just because you are, you know, a Jedi. If you begin to study the dark side of the Force and bring yourself within balance, then you're bringing more balance. Yeah, you're bringing more balance in general.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you know, but also I think that Ahsoka is what the Jedi should have been. Is that, yes, you don't necessarily belong to this order? Is that the Force is everywhere? Right? Yes, and what I think the Force is? The Force is consciousness, and consciousness means, like, being aware, right? So there's moments in which you have to go to the dark side. If you have to say that there's an intruder or something and you're going to save an infant or whatnot, you're going to a dark place to do this good thing, or say that there's great adversity that exists and you choose to not, you know, meet violence with violence, but you choose to go to a pace of peace Like that, to me, is the Force, is the take, you choosing the option of doing the right thing You're just consciously aware of, like what you know side that you're supposed to choose, but you're not lingering in one for far too long. And I think, with the Sith and with the Jedi in their absolute, they were too absolute in their feelings or philosophies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the only solution is to have a conscious Jedi order and a Sith order. You have these different schools of thought, in the sense of one is focused on emotion and tapping into your emotions and using those to fuel your power. You have the Jedi, who are using peace and letting go of your feelings and your attachments to give yourself inner peace. Both are paths to power, yes, but if you don't have both of those schools, then somebody's going to fall through the cracks. Yes, and when they fall through the cracks, you end up with Anakin and Darth Vader.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, something that I always thought was quite profound about Star Wars when I looked at what it meant to be, you know, a Jedi or a Sith Lord was that it's. Both are just human and that you can be happy right now and you can stay in a place of happiness. You can be depressed right now and you can stay in that place of being depressed. But in the grand scheme of things, life has highs and lows and, just like with the Jedi and the Sith, I think they forgot that everything is a cycle and that in its original inception before, there was a dark side, you know, in a political sense, and people decided to create, you know, societies and civilizations that they were all just one, because it's just one force. And they're choosing to say the dark side and the light side of the force, but it's just one force and they were just one, people at one at one point.
Speaker 1:And how it worked, if I'm not mistaken, was that you would go through that phase of being a part of the dark side, if you would get sent off to a place to go through those emotions, and then you'd come back and then, somewhere along the lines you know, people decided, hey, I'm just going to stay in this and you're going to stay in that, and that is how we are today as a society, and the world, it seems, is that way. We're just going to stay here. It feels comfortable. I don't want to know what it's like to drink that Kool-Aid I like my own Kool-Aid, of course, and we're staying in that flavor for way too long that we don't realize it's getting stale.
Speaker 2:That same echo chamber of hearing the same things that make you very comfortable to be there, exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly. I guess that's kind of how I feel, and I think God be a very good self-lord. The reason why I think that is because I get too comfortable with being alone, that it's almost addicting and it's easy for me to stay in that place of isolation and I have to fight every fiber in my body to not stay in that fiber of isolation. You know, it's just me though.
Speaker 2:We all have our vices.
Speaker 1:Exactly, mine is silence. Don't get to experience that much these days, nope, but whenever I find it, I just want to hold on to it Of course. Oh man, I just want to say thank you for, you know, taking the time to be a part of this and being a true fan, of course.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, buddy. I'm happy to make an appearance and have a great conversation with you about not just what makes Yoda maybe the villain, not the villain, but, since he is maybe the villain or not, everything else that ties in Force Anakin, obi-wan, everything else it's all important. You can't just talk exclusively about Yoda, because you miss so much of what external factors contributed to the fall of the Republic and the rise of Palpatine and the Empire.
Speaker 1:So, interestingly enough, I have a. You know, I was. This is a corny thing, and I just came to the realization of this. If one person has a tattoo and it says Imperial on it, right, but then another person has a tattoo and it's a Stormtrooper, and those two people shake hands, what does that mean?
Speaker 2:I don't know. That's a good question.
Speaker 1:Two things that are separate became one.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Are they Imperial Stormtroopers? Now, maybe I don't know. Something that just baffled my mind and we will end it on that note. If you enjoyed today's content, please like and subscribe for more.